I thought this question (http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/284/how-to-open-a-file-from-the-internet-in-a-secure-way) would be off-topic, but apparently some people seem to think otherwise.

Where do we draw the line between professional questions and non-professional questions?

IMO, would be nice to keep the quality of questions relatively high before we attract all kinds of questions and users.

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This question too - security.stackexchange.com/questions/340/… –  AviD Nov 14 '10 at 20:55
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8 Answers 8

I agree, I think that's off-topic.
Moreover, the scope of this site still needs to be clarified: As it was originally envisioned, it was Application Security - although still pretty wide, it's pretty clear what is in and what is not.
Now that the powers that be want to have this site a merged one with XXX, we need to define what is in there.
I'm not thrilled about "IT" security, since that can be perceived as outing dev shops that dont HAVE an IT department.

Whatever is decided, the blurb and title need to be consistent....

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Im not sure I agree. Given the quality of questions and the content provided I think people generally already "get" the scope of the site. I don't see a problem in posting questions so long as they have an IT security flavour to them. –  Anonymous Type Nov 24 '10 at 3:09
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@Anonymous: That's exactly the problem, we keep seeing non-IT-Security questions, end-user type questions are NOT in scope here. On the other hand, there was someone who was hesitating in posting technical secure coding questions, which IS very much on topic. –  AviD Nov 24 '10 at 12:05
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Recently I became active on Stackoverflow though I already googled it dozens of times. But there are questions from Programming Gurus and beginners, even questions about macros in Office suites. I thought security.stackexchange.com might have the same scope.

Maybe I am alone with my opinion but I have the feeling that the IT security community is kind of isolated. Everytime I see IT security forums it makes me think IT security is something like rocket science.

And take these questions for instance:

http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/266/resources-to-learn-about-security

http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/699/best-website-to-learn-computer-security-basics

I think they prove that there is a deficit in exchange of IT security knowledge. (And I guess you rarely see these kind of questions on ther IT security forums...) Lots of people (including me) wonder why there are still people out there that do not update their system regularly or think appriopriately about IT security. The knowledge just doesn't flow...

Besides: If there are 95% pro questions about some weird DNS stuff, I guess 5% stupid questions shouldn't bother too much... And maybe a significant share of these might become very engaged in IT security after seeing that the learning slope isn't that steep...

Just my 2 cents...

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It wasnt so much a question about the level of questions, as to the content. That is to say, its about "professional security", not "security professionals", the difference being the security for a corporate/development/etc setting, as opposed to security for your home. Beginners are not a problem, au contraire (as long as the majority are indeed "professionals"). –  AviD Nov 23 '10 at 0:01
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Ok I agree. Still I have problems in drawing a sharp line between non-pro and pro security. Is a malicious spyware-attack on a laptop that is used for private and (non-IT-)business matters and analysed by an IT professional considered "non-professional security"? Of course I am refering to my question security.stackexchange.com/questions/667/… –  Philip Nov 23 '10 at 17:58
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I would say that's still not IT-type, and I think its pretty clear. As @Olivier stated the original q, this is "end-user" type question, not IT-related. It is possible there might be some gray area - like the q on PGP - but I think usually it would be very clear. As I said in another comment here, compare to the difference between SF/SU - it's usually pretty clear (though admittedly here we cross the lines more...) –  AviD Nov 24 '10 at 12:14
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I think we should welcome most any question where a good answer requires what I'll call a security mindset. I think that our expertise in that area is what distinguishes this site from most of the others.

Many folks, whether sysadmins or programmers or managers or the proverbial grandmother are just trying to get a task done and will often take a shortcut without thinking about the consequences. This is the site where all those sorts of folks should get to interact with people who are adept at seeing the problem from all angles, thinking like an attacker, and explaining the consequences, and how to avoid such problems and design for security.

It is an advantage to be able to help all those folks see this mindset in action for their home systems. The major downside I'm concerned about is that some great IT folks will get tired of seeing questions about "mere" home systems. To them I suggest that the growing wave of spearfishing attacks means that we actually do have to get end users educated about these things, and we often want their home systems secure also. So I think it is shortsighted to restrict this to what the "pros" want to talk about. Keeping an ear to the ways that end-users think about things will help us design improved user experiences and better explain things to our users.

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I do agree in principle with your security mindset, however we do need to balance this with aiming at "professionals". I don't think we need to be overly strict on the "no home users" line anymore, but then I really dont want this to degenerate to those proverbial grandmothers, either. I think we can find a good balance, though, as long as we require that security mindset from the "home users" too. –  AviD Jun 14 '11 at 0:32
    
well said! I totally don't understand the argument that the question is off-topic. I think you've articulated a good, clean set of criteria. –  D.W. Jun 20 '11 at 4:27
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I think the line is fuzzy - I work from a home office, but that needs securing too, so I would selfishly prefer that questions about securing home offices be on-topic. It seems the distinction should be not the subject matter, but the vagueness of the question. The site is supposed to be for "IT security professionals", so I would expect questions that are specific and require answering by an IT security professional:

  • define a problem that has been encountered
  • describe the "known unknowns"
  • explain what you have tried
  • ask for expertise on where to go next

Given a well-asked question, I don't mind whether the target environment is a one-person office or NURV. Conversely, a question like "how do I secure $FOO" with no other information is not something I would answer, even if you were Symantec's CSO.

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+1 : this works for me –  Rory Alsop Dec 13 '10 at 12:10
    
Heh, not sure I want to be answering questions for NURV... But my issue isnt with the one-person office, its my mother. Not a freudianism, but that type of non-professional person who finds a virus on her computer, or is told she should use a personal firewall, or forgot the password to an encrypted zip file - and is asking (even with copious amounts of irrelevant detail) what to do / which to choose / how to crack / what this all means and why are we even here. Even if we decide the distinction is not professional/non, we have to find a way to make those clearly far out of scope. –  AviD Dec 13 '10 at 20:01
    
See, so now I'm torn... this question is exactly the type I was talking about, but what if this a computer he uses for work...? Me, Id wanna mclose it straight off, but I can tell there's not yet a consensus... –  AviD Dec 14 '10 at 5:54
    
@avid: for me, that meets my "too vague" definition. –  user185 Dec 14 '10 at 8:50
    
@AviD - definitely agree that that one is a close. For a start, if someone has a virus 'x' infection, the av vendors are best placed in most cases to talk about specific removal. Here I think we concentrate more on how to ensure the controls in place (including av) in a large or small office are appropriate. –  Rory Alsop Dec 15 '10 at 8:19
    
@Rory - done... –  AviD Dec 15 '10 at 9:31
    
@Graham, what about security.stackexchange.com/questions/1177/…? On the one hand, this is clearly an enduser question - he's looking for personal firewall, and from the tone it doesnt sound like he's thinking of deploying this en masse to his whole network. On the other hand, this is clearly a real, specific, intelligent question, clearly about security, and has a specific issue he's looking to solve... My feeling is ontopic, but its hard to explain the delineation there... –  AviD Dec 16 '10 at 9:12
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I think the stack is at loggerheads.

We have a decision to make, attract regular folks with genuine IT Security questions, or continue to attract bits and pieces of the CISSP crowd with sysadmins who've been migrated here from serverfault, and programmers who've migrated from stackoverflow.

I'm not knocking the site, it's a good resource and I'm finding the opportunity to answer some of these questions helps me dig deeper into knowledge areas I'm already adept with. Unfortunately in order to get out of beta I think the site is going to have to become friendlier to engineers. If not users, these individuals can get us closer to going live, and I think it's perfectly acceptable (if we maintain a strict tagging policy) to gain more of that audience.

To be honest, I've started popping around on Serverfault, and the questions there that are asked which are security related are often downvoted and closed rather than answered well. I'd imagine if we can get more of these questions migrated here it would help answer some questions.

The big cons aren't only for CISO types, they go over strategies used by the badguys to compromise hundreds of thousands of end users. The "family IT guy" could use our expertise to help limit our adversaries resources. If we maintain strict editorial control over the questions, and make sure there aren't too many "hinky" ;) questions I think it's better for us all.

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There are four themes which I think summarise the discussion here so far:

  1. The FAQ is currently not representative of the questions expected
  2. The questions we want to encourage are related to people who are IT security professionals, professionals who have to implement IT security, and people in corporate settings having to deal with IT security issues (from CIOs to home offices).
  3. We don't want to leave non-professionals out in the cold, especially if their questions meet all other criteria and are asked well
  4. IT security affects everyone that uses a computer (and probably many who don't)

Now the content of the FAQ is the subject of other questions but I think when it's resolved things will become a lot clearer. The dilemma stems from points 2 and 3 but I think simplicity is the key - answer questions relating to point 2, close questions relating to point 3. I think a good line in the sand is a home business (point 2) and working from home (point 3). The responsibilities and context are different, even if the advice is the same (which means those working from home can use the answers to the home business questions!).

When closing questions because of point 3 I think it should become etiquette to leave a comment pointing to another resource that answers the question (security blogs, OWASP, etc): "we want to answer your question, just not here." If the question's really good or could be of use to professionals then there's nothing wrong with the community making exceptions and answering the question as long as the exception's explained in a comment. This helps clarify the expectations of the site while being helpful and spreading knowledge if the question deserves an answer.

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I dont know, @Ventral... Some very good points here, but "home business" might have less to do with ITSecurity than "working from home". E.g. a home-based graphic designer business would be offtopic, whereas working from home via VPN would be ontopic. But a homebased security consultant, would be ON topic (but maybe I'm biased ;) ). –  AviD Dec 27 '10 at 21:09
    
@AviD I was thinking along the lines of the home based graphic designer business would have some sort of corporate responsibility towards security (credit card payments, personal data etc) whereas someone VPNing to work from home would already have someone else concerned with security (e.g. whoever set up the VPN - obviously a grey area if they are one and the same ;-)). –  Ventral Dec 27 '10 at 21:44
    
credit cards and such, thats the same as any personal security that your grandmother would have too. Whereas VPN, the someone concerned with security would probably be the one asking :) –  AviD Dec 27 '10 at 21:46
    
haha, I just had the mental image of my grandmother trying to get her head around PCI DSS :D. As I said, both people need to know the answer to the question and they may well have the same answer. –  Ventral Dec 27 '10 at 21:51
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IMHO, the correct answer is that we do not draw the line what so ever between the two groups of noobs and pros. Questions from both groups are equally valid to a IT Security (the reason for this site) perspective. A question at one end of the spectrum is no less relevant than a complex or technically difficult one. You are under no obligation to answer the question if you think its beneath you. However someone asked it - Because they want to learn! Drawing a line simply isolates these people and causes untold harm to the site.

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as was repeated here before, its not about expert/noobs. Its about professional/corporate usage, as opposed to home/private usage. Think about it as the difference between what someone might need at work, as opposed to your momma. –  AviD Nov 24 '10 at 12:08
    
Or better yet, the difference between ServerFault and SuperUser. (Of course most questions are not necessarily SF-scope in nature, also SO, and also many others). –  AviD Nov 24 '10 at 12:10
    
@AViD yes I agree about the difference between ServerFault and SuperUser, however I disagree about your deliniation between corp and home. Imho, home's are becoming more and more challenging from an IT Security perspective, and in general the same skillset applies to making them more secure. –  Anonymous Type Nov 24 '10 at 22:54
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However, if this site wants to attract higher-end experts, e.g. CISO's and such, the question-set must remain on-topic. As it is its already tipped a bit to the lower-end, sysadmin-ish "how do I configure this" type of questions, and not enough advanced, research-based or risk-analysis type questions. –  AviD Nov 25 '10 at 5:50
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Questions such as the example you give would be more suitable on Super User. I think you can draw the line with questions about security from a user or programing perspective on the appropriate sites, with questions specific to security such as how to secure against an attack or certain tools or techniques would be on this site.

As for the focus, some people seem to think this is only for enterprise security professionals, when the FAQ makes no such mention of enterprise. We should just keep it for people in the security profession, without qualifying by scale.

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